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In this interview with André Potocki, former judge at the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR), Professor Dominique Rousseau revisits the disqualification of counterpowers in so-called illiberal democracies in favor of powers derived from universal suffrage. However, democracy is inherent to the rule of law since it is the sovereign himself who enacts the norms, so that "every state is a rule-of-law state" (Kelsen). Positioned at the center of this configuration, the judge should become aware of his central role in the "hermeneutic chain" that unites law and democracy.