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This interview is based on the book Chagrin d’Ecole by Daniel Pennac (published in English as School Blues). He evokes the pangs of the dunce he was and those of other dunces, the thinking that such experiences provoked, and the resulting attitudes and methods that he adopted in his profession as a literature teacher in order to help those poorly adjusted to the education system to enjoy learning. The personal stories the author shares in this interview cast light on not only the dangers of the negative assessment, but also the importance of the teachers and students relationship to knowledge, the use of playing in the teaching-learning process, and notions such as “presence” and “incarnation” in the pedagogical interaction.